Baseline vs. Stress Response: How Noradrenaline, Lactate, and Training Influence Anxiety

Boomer Anderson
December 2, 2020
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December 2, 2020

Baseline vs. Stress Response: How Noradrenaline, Lactate, and Training Influence Anxiety

Julien Pineau and Ricahrd Aceves from StrongFit join the show to discuss nervous system regulation, the role of noradrenaline and lactate in the mind and the body, and movement as a tool for improving mental health.

Julien Pineau and Ricahrd Aceves from StrongFit join the show to discuss nervous system regulation, the role of noradrenaline and lactate in the mind and the body, and movement as a tool for improving mental health.

Who is Julien Pineau?

Julien Pineau is a Humanist, Movement Specialist, and Founder of StrongFit, an intellectual and physical gym that has transcended the actual workout into an education. It’s a culture and a tribe of people who seek to apply force better. Julien is trained to visualize and correct proper human movement patterns.  He has a fascinating ability to diagnose imbalances, find the root of problems, and provide knowledge so you can become stronger, more fit, and a more resilient human. When he is not busy traveling, podcasting or changing the world he is raising his daughter in an environment of love and curiosity. He is a man on a journey inward as much as he is outward.

Who is Richard Aceves?

Richard Aceves has a diverse athletic background that started with powerlifting, which provided him with a solid strength foundation. Richard started Crossfit in 2007 and was immediately addicted to the push that the sport provided.

Richard has worked tirelessly in understanding the human body and its mechanics, as well as, working towards becoming an elite powerlifter, professional GRID athlete, and attempting to get his pro card for Strongman. He is adept at identifying the missing link and targeting it, so that athletes can perform better and with less chance of injury. He is adamant that his athletes build a solid foundation and have a clear understanding of the mechanics required to exercise correctly. His number one priority as a coach is making sure his athletes are healthy and safe.


[2:38] Discussion about Karl J. Friston and his work

[11:40] Starting Burn The Questions

[18:15] Lactate as fuel for the brain and the body

[32:03] Noradrenaline baseline

[46:26] Switching on and off

[1:01:30] Movement connection to the brain

[1:07:17] The oblique opener

[1:10:40] Training to manipulate baseline

[1:25:31] The StrongFit Roadmap


Karl J. Friston

Burn The Questions

Tom Platz

Avicii: True Stories

What is Life? By Erwin Schrodinger

Ego Is the Enemy by Ryan Holiday

Episode Transcript

Boomer Anderson: [00:00:00]Welcome to decoding superhuman. This show is a deep dive into obsessions withhealth performance, and how to elevate the human experience. I explore thelatest tools,

science and technology with experts in various fields ofhuman health. This is your host Boomer Anderon. Enjoy the journey,

Julien Pineau: [00:00:36]uh, intro myself. Uh, so I'm Julien Pineau. I'm the owner of strong fit withbean. Strong fit was first. I mean, it's been an idea that has been thereforever, but we really, we took it on the, on the road to do seminars andthings like this. Like what, five, six years ago, Richard is actually the onewho convinced me to do.

Cause at that time I had my own, my own gym for like sixyears struggling for five years. You know, when you compare where they'repaying your rent, All the gyms rent at the beginning of the month. I don'tthink I was ever on time for either. Uh, so it was a lot of struggle in center.I did that barbell shot, but gas, which literally changed my life, the businessfrom like one day to the next.

And then I finally started to make money. And Richard waslike, so let's drop everything and let's go in the world and let's see whathappens. So you're the crazy one. He's well, yeah, mind you Ave to go on yourown daughter. I'm like, sure. Let's go do this and see what happens. So we wenton and, and so we'd been on the, on the, we were on the road for three yearsdoing seminars, and then we settled in the Netherlands, like two and a halfyears ago.

And we went from just a pure movement system to a movementthat incorporate many, many of those things. So strong fit is not to me. It'snot a company. It's just the way I've lived my life from the beginning. And so,and the progress I've made through life, I've always been incorporated intothis.

Richard Aceves: [00:01:56]How's it going? I'm Richard a service. Um, I've been under Julian's wing nowfor it's going on eight years. I think. Um, CrossFit coach CrossFit, gym ownerthen just started getting into the strong fit stuff and seeing how much we'remissing in the fitness industry. So that's been basically my drive from then onjust to make sure that we can do things better.

Boomer Anderson: [00:02:19]Boomer Anderson. I host the decoding superhuman podcast. I also spend time on acompany called troscriptions, uh, looking at business strategy for companies inthe health industry, but came across these guys when I was, uh, you know,Former CrossFitter former powerlifter and experiencing the extreme ends of allof that.

And came across you guys a few years ago, have been inAmsterdam now for four years. And I'm embarrassed that this is one of the firsttimes we've connected.

Julien Pineau: [00:02:49]Well, no, like you were in Singapore, you left Singapore for, and you aretraining at the gym that we did a seminar at, but you left four weeks before wegot dealt with something.

Boomer Anderson: [00:02:59]Within a couple of weeks, as in, I was going on, the plane heard you guys werecoming. And then I started hearing more and more about strong fit through, uh,Melanie Lim. And then later on ed caddy, who actually introduced us. And, youknow, it's been great to get to know you guys, hopefully once. The weatherchanges.

I'll be able to use some of my barbecue skills from, fromMemphis, Tennessee, get you guys over there.

Julien Pineau: [00:03:30]Yeah. Cal Freestone or no, coffee's done is the man. I want to go to London.Like you're going with me, right? Oh yeah. I want to get you on that. Oh yeah.When the fucking open, uh, yeah, no, no. I want to go like dude, but dude,like. People don't understand what he's putting forward.

Boomer Anderson: [00:03:46]I do think that's actually part of the problem with getting it out there isbecause he's not able to translate it to,

Julien Pineau: [00:03:52]I think our, I think ego is an issue in this because I've talked to a guy whoworked with him directly and he's a professor in Eindhoven.

Uh, so the duty is super high and he say like, he was infront of Cal Freestone and he was like this like, uh, you know, like in frontof, Oh my God. Oh my God. Like he could barely do you want to close? Uh, Thedoor. Uh, it should, it should be you missed all this. He's going to be for anhour straight.

Boomer Anderson: [00:04:19]Yeah, let's close it.

Julien Pineau: [00:04:20]Yeah. Yeah. Um, and the guy was lucky. He's the like right away, you starttalking to him and he says the greatest genius he's ever faced. But, and we'retalking about a professor who teachers post PhD level stuff. And I had dinnerwith him to do so we could talk about Calfee son and he was telling me, that'swhy you invited me to dinner is like his friends that have PhDs in mathematicsand physics don't understand.

Cal freestanding is like, how come you can understand theconcept when they count. I was like, that's another problem. But a lot of themgo seek out freestyle and leave going. Like. What did he just say? Yeah. Andthere's a lot of that at play where he goes all over the place. Cause you haveto understand when everybody talks about a subject, then he's going to take youto weld laws or the economics versus this, versus this to go back to the pointof neuroscience.

And I think honestly, a lot of them don't like it becausethey feel stupid.

Boomer Anderson: [00:05:12]Because they're having to venture outside of their comfort zone obviously. Andthere is sort of this social cultural programming where you're looking up to aperson and seeing that he is a genius and therefore you're kind of.

Just letting him do his thing. And I I'm losing my train ofthought here, but it's just

Julien Pineau: [00:05:31]right, because it's taking you into a place. So you're looking up to the guy,he's a genius. He's like, please take me with you, which is what you're therefor? Just blow my mind and everything. And then suddenly the guide takes you toa place where you go, I don't know what he's talking about.

Yeah. And then, so then he's like, but then, then you feelrejected. It's like, but I don't understand. I thought it was Martin. I don'tunderstand. And he's like, yeah, And he doesn't care and it just keeps ongoing.

Richard Aceves: [00:05:57]So sounds like somebody, I know,

sounds familiar

Julien Pineau: [00:06:03]and so on. Honestly, I just think those people don't take it well, but B peopledo not understand the genius of this man. He's going into concept. You can tellsometimes it goes fishing into stuff. I think he does it to see if people aregoing to catch up or not. I think he's at a stage in his life where he's like,all right, You don't want me to send it's all good.

Boomer Anderson: [00:06:22]If you get it, you get it. If you don't, you know,

Julien Pineau: [00:06:24]but I think behind the curtain, there's so much more, he goes

Richard Aceves: [00:06:28]fishing and as soon as we will start to blink out, he was like, I'm just goingto talk about my shit anyways. Cause nobody's going to ask the questions.Nobody.

Julien Pineau: [00:06:34]She might have done that as well.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I don't understand why. Yeah. I thinkit's that. And I might really, my Newt, you know, very small level. I totallyget it. Cause there's a moment where you're looking at someone you go like,okay, Yeah, they don't get it. Yeah. He will be seen as one of the greatest,not genius of all time of overall, you know, like, uh, like, um, like an inchdine, like, uh, before that, like Isaac Newton, like someone like that for thefield of neuroscience.

Yeah. We need a rockstar. For biology and your science inall of that, like we had for physics and math. Yeah. We didn't one of them onthe side of the human of the, on the human side and Cal freestyle is that, andhe's very eloquent. I wish he was a little bit more of a bad boy, so he couldbe seen more because what he's talking about is finally.

It's things that Maxwell talked about, that  talked about, the need to alive physics andbiology, even Niels Bohr said it, uh, Heisenberg all those guys said likephysics and biology have to be combined because we are missing something on thebiology side, even them. So it a hundred years ago and we still were startingto do it, but very, very slowly.

Right. I know Cal freestyle is the one that is getting thetwo together, going look, there's something there. And I wish we could hearwhat he's saying. Well,

Boomer Anderson: [00:07:58]so in a way, if somebody, if there's a translator for Carl Freston, this would.You could actually bridge this gap. Right. And so if you could take it,translate it to people that are probably in those disparate fields and see ofthe interrelationships of them then.

Yeah. I mean then the message spreads a lot quicker,

Julien Pineau: [00:08:17]right? I think what you would have to do to translate him and say, guys istalking about economics because he starts to go into good house law, forexample, and stuff like that. People are going to be, and then you should gowith it. Cause he knows it. And he sinks, you know it, but you don't causeyou're neuro scientist or mathematician or whatever, and he keeps jumping onstuff.

And I know what he's talking about. Cause I happened tostudy the same stuff. Yeah. But most of the time I'm like, Oh, I know wherehe's going with this. And I'm sure 90% of people don't even understand is thisreferring to. What he's doing is he's referring to other concepts of otherdisciplines to kind of show that this is not just neuroscience.

It's a life concept that you can see the proof of what he'ssaying into other parts, which is very important to prove what you're saying.Like if you, if I give you a principle out of social energy goal, Science. Ifthat's a science, uh, out of training and economics and physics, then you wouldgo, okay, I have a founding principle there.

I have something I can rely on because he works, not fromone thing, but for different things. Cause if he only works for training, buthe doesn't apply to biology, you'd be like, all right. That's you know what Imean? Like that's not a true principle. Right? So he does that a lot. But bydoing that though, he's talking to people that are hyper specialists, they donot know outside.

Of their, of their field. Like this is a guy who was talkingabout, um, like they were wrong about cancer and DNA that most likely it's notthat Polybius an entire book on that. Uh, and he was like, well, I guess I haveto, uh, study the Krebs cycle now. Like the dude is 80. I spent his entire lifestudying cancer, and now he's going into glycolysis.

It was the Krebs cycle. And I'm like, what do you mean? Youneed to study the Krebs cycle, but that's how hyper specialized people are.Yeah,

Boomer Anderson: [00:09:58]no. Yeah. But as a result, do you think this is Karl? Friston trying totranslate it to the masses, his method of trying to translate it to the massesbecause he's able to relate it to all of these disparate fields.

He's just hoping that one of these times where he throws itout to people.

Julien Pineau: [00:10:13]No, he's his, it's his mind. Okay. This is what I do. I'm not I'm right, butthis is here. Let me give you the truth. It's Moses coming down the mountainhere are the 10 commandments and I'll break them down on your head. But youknow, I mean, like he's not, I think he's just speaks what he thinks is thetruth, because at the same time his mind goes.

10 20 times past, once you've seen God in the Bush and youhave these commandments, you've got our guys either you do it or you don't, butit's not up to me anymore. Like, I'm just going to go back and talk to God now.I mean like it's, I think he's more like that where he's money is too wild. Ithink he's an, I believe it's advancing humankind at verify, wait on this.

And all he's doing is allowing us to see the truth in theback as he moves forward. And I think his mindset is that like, His work is tooimportant to be lost on trying to convince hyper specialists that get their egobruised because they don't understand him. That's what I say.

Richard Aceves: [00:11:16]Should we intro this thing?

Boomer Anderson: [00:11:23]we can, we can jump right into Carl for us than, I mean, we can intro it or Ican record the interest. Go,

Julien Pineau: [00:11:27]go, go, go, go, go in short. No, that way all people will know too.

Boomer Anderson: [00:11:29]All right. So we've got Julian and Richard here. From strong fit. Uh, firstthey rather than me and show this, I would love to just start with the idea ofburn the questions.

Cause it's a phrase that I heard several years ago. I toldyou that, like I came across you guys when I was living in Singapore,

Julien Pineau: [00:11:47]right?

Boomer Anderson: [00:11:47]Where the hell did burn the questions come from?

Julien Pineau: [00:11:50]Uh, it's from, uh, Heidi girl. Okay. Who, who was not a Nazi? He was a Nazisympathizer in, in 1930 before they started burning people.

Anyway, long story? Um, no, because people get it wrong.Like he actually renounced that later on. Um, it was, it was, uh, uh, what youwere saying is that when someone was asking what the goal was, you know,philosophy based in, whereas like the point is to build the questions and, um,I was doing the barbell short podcast episode one, uh, one 90 or 91.

And, uh, I talked about a lot about pushing on the sled andpushing to a high intensity level safely, obviously, but being able to pushpast a certain intensity so that you could access. Parts of yourself that arelocked until you reach a certain intensity. Welcome to Western society and thesoft life that we live.

We all got soft and to go to certain places with the newyou're going to have to push them. You're going to have to go there. And what'sgoing to block you from going there is usually you talking to yourself. Ishouldn't be doing that. Like, is that safe? Should I be doing this? Of course.Right, exactly.

Exactly. It's all the walls by welcome to the defaultnetwork and you know, the pros questionating and then you're around thesandbag, you're on the sleds going, like, I should go, but then you starttalking to yourself and it has been two minutes and you're still not pushingthe sled

Richard Aceves: [00:13:10]and you start.

Julien Pineau: [00:13:13]Yeah.

And then you're like, right. And I'm pretty sure he's crazy.Anyway, why am I doing this again? And then again, all you're doing isprocrastinating, right? And so my point was, if you want to go to a placewhere. You can make progress truly, but not just as do nothing as a human,right. You're going to have to build those questions.

You're going to have to go past worlds in directly intoaction. Where of course you don't want to do this stuff. No one wants to do it.You think I like it? No one wants to no one else to do it. You like theresults, but the first time you're like, you know what I mean? Like when you, howmuch pain you're about to be, and you look at the sled and you go the firsttime you go shit, and then you learn that.

There is actually a love, hate relationship there becausethat slate will bring you so much on a human level that you start to actuallylove the pen you're going to go through because you know that at the end of theparking lot, there's a better version of yourself. And so there was that, butto get to that better version of yourself, you're going to have to build thosequestions to the ground.

Like there's no. And that actually relates to that podcastwe did is that there's actually an entire neuroscience part to this from thebrain networks, but you're going to have to access a bot where it's notrepression where you put those doubts away. And there's only one way to putthem away is to by burning them to the ground.

So he's like push the sled. I don't care. I don't care howmuch pain you're in. I don't care what you want to stop. Don't. Take two moresteps. You can always take two more steps. So you go until your body shuts off.Once you can go there, once you have pushed past your own body, then you'rebetter.

Boomer Anderson: [00:14:43]Just a side question here.

Is there a danger if you're pushing it too hard, too long?

Julien Pineau: [00:14:49]I don't know. What's that? No, don't get me wrong. If you were to do five setsof that every day, you just destroy your nervous system sooner or later, you'llput yourself in freeze because the amount of energy that you spend doing that

Richard Aceves: [00:14:59]you can put that much intensity into it.

Julien Pineau: [00:15:01]Yeah, you probably like the

Richard Aceves: [00:15:02]second or third day, you just sleep all day. We would not

Julien Pineau: [00:15:06]have it.

Richard Aceves: [00:15:06]We've we've tried.

Julien Pineau: [00:15:07]Yeah. We've only had three, three weeks for three weeks, three times a week.And then we just crashed, like by the, by the fourth week, we just couldn'tpush anymore, not to the same place, but that's why we use the sled.

Now, could you, if you were to do that, let's say with a barbellback squat. Yeah, that that'd be dangerous. It goes, your knees goes, your backyard goes falling with a barbell like collapsing. Uh, like the way Tom Platzwas doing it with a barbell back squat for the ones who don't know Googletemplates. And he was like, I talked to him directly and he told me this storywas true.

He did three 1,540 kilos, four 50 reps. Five zero two, no,no, no. Took five minute rest. Did it again. And he's like, I did that to oncein my life, but I did it right. So like, because his thing was, I'm going to.Push past exhaustion, he would do that and then finish with quarter squats andthen just like little Ben and Julie would just be gone.

So now with the barbell does dangerous. Right? You can't dothat to a fan. He could do it, but no, the idea was to use the sled so that youremove the pressure on the joint, the pressure on the spine, the centric partof it, because you'll be so sore. Like you can actually do damage. You can giveyourself rhabdo, you can pop your joints, hurt your back.

I'll do stuff like that on a sled though, we remove allthis. There's no, ecentric no pressure on the joints. Very little, no pressureon the spine. And what's stopping you from doing two more reps. So your mindwill give up before your body does. You cannot go to a stage when your bodytruly gives up on the sled.

Not going to happen. Your mind will give a filter.

Boomer Anderson: [00:16:38]Yep. Okay. All right. So

Richard Aceves: [00:16:40]maybe there's heat involved, but that will be good. That

Julien Pineau: [00:16:43]was, you would have to go external environment. I passed out once. I mean,

Richard Aceves: [00:16:46]like if you're doing stupid shit, like you're dehydrated or, I mean,

Julien Pineau: [00:16:50]come on.

Richard Aceves: [00:16:51]If you're anybody and their grandmother, I've had grandmothers do this likelittle kids.

Yeah. If you're healthy and that sounds like taking care ofyourself and hydrating,

Julien Pineau: [00:17:02]you can always watch yourself doing something. Yeah. So can you crossing thestreet? So, I mean, like that's not the conversation, right? Can you take onefor example, but also we're not doing, we're not saying 20 sets, cause I'm sureyou can probably find a way to hurt yourself.

You can, by the way, you can fall on the sled. That wouldn'thurt you. Like we had someone, um, it's happened before. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Youthought

Richard Aceves: [00:17:24]they were focused and they were trying to bumper car each other on each otherover. Yeah, not the point.

Julien Pineau: [00:17:31]If you let's say you take one set. Right. Because that was the idea.

You take one set and then you push that one set as hard asphysically and mentally possible. Now it's completely safe. Trust me, like. Youare so far from your max, even when you stop, you're still so far, you don'twant the Navy seal said when you quit, you are 60%. Trust me on this slide.We've seen that you can always go fail it.

You can always go harder. You're not even close. You willnot reach that stage on the slip.

Boomer Anderson: [00:18:00]All right. Maybe this is the appropriate time to transition into lactatebecause the discussion, it lactate actually came more to my awareness becauseof you guys and how, how you've really focused on it over the years, or atleast it seems like you focused on that.

Um, walk me through how both of you came to the discussionaround lactate as. Particularly the brain's main fuel, but maybe also thebodies as well.

Julien Pineau: [00:18:27]Oh, it is both. But that said surely the entire Camille session. So that was arabbit hole where I went into lactate

Richard Aceves: [00:18:34]through glycolysis

Julien Pineau: [00:18:35]to glycolysis. I was working at glycolysis, whatever it was.

I grew up looking at glycolysis. Right. Because there was anentire Camino session on the glucose. Right. That's one. Yeah, because ofnutrition. So, um,

Boomer Anderson: [00:18:45]Because everybody's talking about glucose and ketones right

Julien Pineau: [00:18:48]now, everything is glucose, glucose, glucose. And just a, just because youingest glucose doesn't mean you're going to use it in the muscle like that.

I was a guy that's an over simplified. It's like sayingeating fats will make you fat and playing basketball will make you tall. Right.Obviously look at basketball player, they all told, so there's something there,right? It was the same kind of argumentation. Or I was that guys come on. Like,cause everybody was like, well, if you want performance, you need carbs.

I'm like, I understand the carbs. To make the story short,like, um, we are not looking at nutrition and, and it's an, the never system.What he does, like protein versus fat versus com do not have the same impact onthe nervous system. One is passing pathetic. They want you to sympathetic andeverybody's just kept pushing the idea that you have to have carbs to haveglucose in the system.

And I was like, no, you don't because there's somethingcalled glycolysis. And so I, and gluconeogenesis and stuff like that, I waslike, all right. So let me look a little bit further into the subject. And, uh,I was, I started to going through that and then we have women who are trans alot of marathon runners and, uh, instruments athletes who had an entire thingon like data and its importance to wild, uh, like data as a fuel and thingslike this, which I.

I, I don't like to study like the, uh, pure biology. Cause Idon't like to memorize things. I'm much more of a conceptual intelligenceperson right outside of, I memorize reducing the shit a thousand times, but Idon't like to do, like, you don't like the testing school memorization type ofthing. So I was like, okay.

And then I stopped to go into it. Okay. So lactate as afuel. Versus like data as a waste product. I mean, waste product. That's, we'retalking 1920, 1970, all this stuff. And I start to look at it more like data asa fuel, which makes more sense. And there's a rabbit hole that opens and themore I go into the like, take, the more we realize that it's more than a fuel,it's also an anti-inflammatory.

He has, it seems to have antidepressant effects and, uh, andthen he goes on and on and on. He can create panic attacks amongst anxiouspeople. I'm like, all right. So. Is it a waste product or is it a fuel? So Istopped to go into this and then you start to realize it's a fuel. And then youstart to go into how do you produce lactate, glycolysis, glucose into lactate,but then you start to realize that they go glycolysis into pyruvate for glycolysisand pyruvate gets transformed into lactate and aerobically.

That's usually the way we look at it, except in the brain.It doesn't. In the brain, it's like they to puree pyruvate, to lactateaerobically, and then you start to go through Brooks, like the Lactaid shovels.Yo you start to go further and further and fell down. And then at the end yousee during glycolysis and I was going to make everybody scream is that it's notlactate to pyruvate a vine.

It's not like glucose to pyruvate. And then it's straight,uh, glucose to lactate that pyruvate to lactate East part of glycolysis. Andthen after that, like they goes back to being pyruvate in specific. A situationwhen he goes into the cytosolic anyway, I'm not going to go there, but, um,there was an entire rabbit hole there where I was like, but.

How come the guys are proving this and still in schoolanywhere it's thought that lactate is a waste product. Yeah. Or if it's a fuel.Well, I know be clear and like, so it seems that no lactate is a fuel aerobicallyor anaerobically, it makes no difference. I post-sale makes no difference. Likedata ease the fuel.

And very importantly, lactate is a fuel of the brain aswell. And so now that opened a major rabbit hole, because if you look in thebrain. You see that lactate to make story short, because if you can see thevideo, you'll see that on the, on the windows over there that a lactate is asignaling molecule to wild part of the brain called the locus.

Coeruleus that put you says no, Adrina Alina. What wasinteresting to me on that is no adrenalin is the neurotransmitter of thesympathetic nervous system, so that there's not a causality, but a correlationbetween the sympathetic nervous system and lactate. Which makes sense. But thenthat led me to weld anxiety and lactate to up testing those things.

And what we saw is people that are anxious to have higherlevels of lactate at rest. Then, uh, then the non-anxious people was athletesand every single. If it's a waste product, it's one thing. But if it's a fuel,even for the brain, then it's another, if it's a waste product, you're seeinganxiety as just a problem, like, you know, waste product and stuff like that.

But if it's a fuel and then anxiety is a function that youhave more like that so that you can use it more. And anxiety is just a step onthe sympathetic nervous system, trying to lead you to fight or take action towild, whatever that is that is creating. That state so sing like deadcorrectly. Changes, even the idea of anxiety completely.

Boomer Anderson: [00:23:27]So anxiety in this case then could be seen as the under utilization of act oflactate, but also means that do you have more, I guess, looking a physics termhere, resting potential for brain use.

Julien Pineau: [00:23:41]Exactly. But it would be that so anxiety would be a function. Not a disease.Like they trying to put it like that, and anxiety has a negative connotation,but if you look, you have anxiety.

When you go see your super, you have a movie. Glad you wantto go see technique. You feel excited, but technically it's not that far fromanxiety. You know what the difference is one. You want to see the other one,you don't right. There are situations you like, you don't want to deal with.That's where anxiety, you have the pit in the stomach, but that's because youdon't want to do that versus wanting.

So it's not the field surgical part that makes it notenjoyable. It's how you look. Add it, and that's going to come into play in amajor way for anxiety and stuff like that. But so yeah, anxiety would be just aelevated state to allow you to fight whatever the hell is, stressing you out.Nope. A function of the sympathetic nervous system.

Boomer Anderson: [00:24:33]So if. Uh, then we, if we're reframing anxiety, then we're looking at new waysof dealing with it, right? Yeah. And so you're looking at a new way of dealingwith anxiety. And of course, we're going to be talking about movement here in asecond, but let's, let's connect the dots here with lactate and or noradrenaline,um, and how that, that works because there's another negative connotation thatyou mentioned, which is the sympathetic nervous system.

And so how do we look at. And this is a multi-layeredquestion, I guess. How do we look again at the sympathetic nervous system in anew light so that it can be more of a strategic use?

Julien Pineau: [00:25:11]Yes, because people see sympathetic as fight and flight. So first of all, it isa negative connotation in fight. When you say fight most people, by the way.

Visualize losing. Isn't that funny? When you say fighter?Yeah. When you say,

Richard Aceves: [00:25:26]even when you ask people, they're like, I didn't go into a big enough fighttoday. Like they still make themselves, it's always negative.

Julien Pineau: [00:25:31]Cause you think losing. Yeah. If you think fight fistfight, you think losing,right. Of course. I think winning.

Yeah, because I fought. Yeah. Right. But if you let's sayyou go into a fight that, you know, you're going to win, you know, you're goingto fuck up the other guy. Would you be that nervous about it? No, no. Causeyou're going to, and you kind of, I remember Mike Tyson saying I haven't, uh, Ifeel arousal when I fuck somebody up.

Richard Aceves: [00:25:55]Right. There's

Julien Pineau: [00:25:55]a reason for that. That's another problem. Um, all fighters will have gone asthis. Like if you go into a fight going on, I'm going to fuck you up. You don'twhen you start to see the guy flinching and starting to, and to lose a nigga,like that's not a bad feeling. I'm sorry. And anybody was sinks.

That part is bad. It's because you never fought or at leastyou never won. Yeah. Is your schools. You're thinking losing schools. You don'twant to be in a fight, but what if I want to be in a fight? What if you slap myfiance? Like I'm not, I'm not anxious about fucking Europe. I can't wait to doit. So sympathetic, when we say fight, it's not always a bad thing.

Like you just visualizing, but I think, cause you'revisualizing, losing, I'm visualizing winning,

Richard Aceves: [00:26:35]and they visualize. I think the suppression of anger hoods so much that a fightis necessarily a fight. It's just doing action is going into a fight state intoa sympathetic. So it's, I think it's a connotation that the fight means it'sgoing to be a fist fight or there needs to be this like seeing red angry.

Julien Pineau: [00:26:55]Right. But even if we look at the physiological aspect, what's this, what's asign of sympathetic mouse breathing like elevated heart rate. You know, youstart to sweat from your foreheads. You start to have all those signs. You,you, you meet your person, you think is going to be your wife for the firsttime you go up the stairs or you're about to ask her out, you have those signs,right?

So that's the sympathetic reaction that you have, or you goup the stairs the first time to pick her up for dinner. You're. Do you think abit like this or guys, you know what I'm talking about? Like, we don't want toset, but we're like, what if she says no? What if like, I hope I don't fuck uptonight, which is what she's thinking as well.

I hope he doesn't fuck up tonight. So, but those are allsympathetic reaction. So that's the problem too, is we associate the fight andflight is a really is a misnomer, by the way, it's also a hunting or beinghunted. Yeah, there's a difference there who wants to be hunted? No one, wehave a very long memory of this shit, but hunting is not a bad feeling becauseyou're going to get food.

You're going to, I mean, like that's a better way ofexplaining it. So we have a warped view of what is sympathetic is sympatheticis dealing with the outside the past sympathetic. If you look, it's mostlydealing with insight, it's healing, it's doing a number of things, but NLG pointedto all the insight.

The sympathetic is simply an LG pointing to the outside,dealing with it. The second you deal with stuff you and the sympatheticreaction, because it's a matter of energy conservation versus energyexpenditure. That's how the system thinks about it. Really, because everythingis about an LG always. And so being bored is already your son.

You're getting too wild, a sympathetic because it's like, Ineed to do something. Right. So they're already going to weld the sympathetic.So his anxiety and everything. So that whole fight and flight is as created thenegative view of the sympathetic. But that's mostly because people in theirlife like they have anxiety because maybe they don't like what they're doing.

They don't like working 14 hours a day. They might be tired.You're exhausted from working so hard. Guess what happened when you'reexhausted? Your buddy's like, dude, we need to conserve energy. We need toheal. So I need to pull you back to all the passing bathroom inside, but you keeppushing by using coffee, drugs, getting angry, whatever your fix is.

Right. And the buddy's like, dude. Stop we just running out.So now there's a fight between the two and that's not a good thing for thebody. So you're looking at the simple thing that with STEM fold, the negativeside effect that eventually happened. Cause you stopped listening to your bodya long time ago.

So there's an entire thing there too. Other sympathetic thatpeople misunderstand a happiness is a sympathetic side. Like whenever you're,you're super on LGD, cause you're winning. That's the sympathetic as well. Sothis there's good. There's no good and bad in nature. There's only function,right. And the end, the function of sympathetic is so important.

So people think also like brute force when they thingssympathetic. That's not true. If you study something very exciting andeverything, that's not a Bosnian pathetic stuff, it's going to be sympatheticas well. It's just, it's not that simple. Right? And so the sympathetic nervoussystem. If not control.

For example, we lead to two issues. Healing is a good path.You cut yourself first, you get a red swelling. You know why? Because thesympathetic nervous system is active. Cause now it's trying to kill all gymsfrom entering and to make sure like you are ready to close the wound and do allthat stuff. So you need that.

Right, but let's say the sympathetic is out of control. Thenyou would get a major inflammation that keeps on spreading or like, you know,like an auto immune disease or things like this. So yes, there can be issuesassociated with the sympathetic, but that doesn't mean the sympathetic is badin itself. It just means things got out of control.

Things got imbalanced. It happens the same way on thepassive sympathetic as well. Like if you start to spend only in the LGN,eventually you incapable of. Being in contact with the outside. Yeah, I that'sdepression. Right? So you could see how both sides are like that. And so whenwe start to look at the sympathetic and its importance is far more than weunderstand, and by the way, freeze is not in the sympathetic parasympatheticside.

Boomer Anderson: [00:31:03]When you hear the elementary description of the central nervous system, it'sfight flight freeze, right then it's okay. Yep. Talk about freeze.

Julien Pineau: [00:31:10]Freeze is actually, so dr. Porges, the one I came up with HIV and all thatstuff had what is something called the polyvagal theory, which he was showingthat the freeze mode actually comes from the dorsal vagus nerve it's on thepast sympathetic side.

It's so ultimate and oldest form of defense, which isplaying dead. Well, she's shutting off. So if you push a sympathetic to thepoint where conserve conservation of NLG is necessary, because now physicallywe are at risks, then you will shut you off naturally and put you into thefreeze, which is a pass Impathics ideas to all the dorsal vagus.

Now it's a shut-off mechanism that is necessary becausesometime playing dead is the best form of defense. If you lost every other way.Then playing. That is the way. And that's why we see depression being, it'slike when all forms of, of fighting I've lost, then you need to reseteverything and that's where the depression comes in.

Okay. So there's a very important aspect between the two.Yeah.

Boomer Anderson: [00:32:09]I want to talk about noradrenaline MPS line and I'm going to be guided by youas to which way to take this, because the way you look at baseline, especiallywhen it comes to anxiety students and, um, Why don't we go with baseline

Julien Pineau: [00:32:23]first? Yeah.

So just to finish no Audra. And why does it matter so much?Because it's the neurotransmitter of the sympathetic nervous system. That's theone, right. And it's all produced mainly by the local scholars, which happensto be so there's. The, and then the lactate comes in on that because thelactate will signal to the local scoliosis to produce adrenalin.

So there's an entire play like Tate, uh, sympathetic,nervous STEM. So that's what the new Audra and Berlin is so important. Right.Okay. We're going to come back to New York. We're going to come back, but sopeople understand why no adrenalin is such an important part. So when we lookat baseline, where we saw is, um, there were studies done on schizophrenia,anxiety, and depression, and we saw the same.

Uh, concept the same principles at play, which means if youlook at schizophrenia, you have, uh, what is called positive and negativesymptoms is not good versus bad. Positive symptoms means Alison nations. Uh, soKing George, the fifth told you to go kill dragons and, um, nigga chief Thomasjust means you're catatonic.

Right. And the more they will to wild, um, the negativesymptoms, the more we saw the nausea in the levels being low, you can test thatto skin conductance, things like this, or depressed people, you know, like theycan barely feel anything cause of skin. Conductance is actually very lowamongst other things.

Right. And then when they were going to our positivesymptoms, like the fuller originations they'll know, adrenal levels were muchhigher, was very high on the high parasite almost. Now we saw that with anxiety.  as well, like people that have panic attacksand everything that no Adrina levels are through the roof, Thor, so out theirlactate levels at baseline.

So that's where it models. And then when you look atdepression, you see a baseline that is very low when they have the very low.Uh, so there's two types. Let me rephrase. There's two types of depressionwhere it's something that is calling anxious, depression, where people actuallyhave anxiety. And then they have a response to stress that just crushes them.

And you have people that are very low naturally with aresponse to stress that crushes them even more. So was some people depressed,were high baseline anxiety, or those have a very low baseline. When we look atthat, we saw the people with anxiety, with a high baseline, having elevatedlevel of no adrenalin people with low.

Uh, baseline have very low level of no Adrienne Allianz. Sothe naturally Nalin more than the  andall this seems to not as a causation, but at least as a coalition of where youare in your everyday life, when you are like super hyper, you would see thatwith bipolars like this, not in that study, but I can bet you it's the samewhen they feel super happy and everything is called there'll be high level of  when they feel down, they'll have low levelof no adrenaline.

I'm not implying position by saying there is. He seems to belike a, not a target, but a measure of where you are in your baseline relatesto the adrenalin levels. And knowing that there's a relationship between lactateand no adrenaline, you can make that jump.

Boomer Anderson: [00:35:17]Okay. So it seems like an easy solution here for some of these.

Yeah. It's not easy session, but one of the, one of thethings that you and I had discussed before was the idea of, uh, Commondepression, drugs now being replaced with,

Julien Pineau: [00:35:34]uh,

Boomer Anderson: [00:35:35]yeah. So SSRI is becoming SNR. S S N R S or SNRs,

Julien Pineau: [00:35:40]uh, adrenal. Uh, yeah.

Boomer Anderson: [00:35:42]Yeah.

Julien Pineau: [00:35:42]So. Yeah. No.

Boomer Anderson: [00:35:44]So essentially, if we were to look at this and I know this, the wrong way tolook at it, cause he shouldn't look at anything.


Julien Pineau: [00:35:50]just,

Boomer Anderson: [00:35:51]yeah. It's so if you're looking at it, deterministically, noradrenaline,obviously key to emotional state and

Julien Pineau: [00:35:59]right. Again, it's non-deterministic but let's, let's oversimplify a bit andlet's go down that road so people can at least conceptualize the idea. Yeah.

Boomer Anderson: [00:36:07]So going down the road of Nora, if we wanted to manipulate our state of anxietyor depression, or just being at sort of a higher energy level.

What are sort of the mechanisms that we can use in order tomanipulate that?

Julien Pineau: [00:36:21]So the reason we are talking about serotonin versus  is so atoning seems to be a target of the,and neurons that produce the adrenaline. The target down downstream of thoseneurons are the serotonin neurons. So it seems like we have looked at serotoninas a molecule of happiness and that's complete bullshit anyway, because.

Were, that's not even an oversimplification, that's justplain wrong. Like we don't understand serotonin and it's, it's downstream whenit comes to the loop. Anyway, if you go upstream, you see no adrenaline firstin your legs in neurons, which is a very important part of the whole equation.And this is why you see more and more of those anti-depression pills, notrelating on serotonin anymore, but going to well, no adrenalin, uh, becausethat's just upstream.

When you, when it comes to this, there's stilldeterministically looking at it. So it's still wrong, but we're starting tomove forward a little bit. And, um, I lost my train of thought. Where was I?What was it? What was the question again? Oh yeah. Then what we could do withit. Right. So that means, let's say we have, so again, I'm going tooversimplify it and look at it in a deterministic way.

It doesn't work quite like that, but just so people canvisualize it. So let's imagine you are anxious. I mean, uh, you have elevatedlevels of no adrenaline. We tested people. We saw elevated levels of like tit.We've seen that. We tested it. Like I even did the test at the . Remember wehad the seminar, I test my, uh, blood levels of lactate and I'm at 1.0.

Minimal, right. I have a small fight about my daughter,cause she doesn't want to do the testing and I'm getting pissed as usual. Uh, I'mnot as patient as I should be as a father. And then like 45 seconds. It was

Richard Aceves: [00:37:56]crazy how fast it was.

Julien Pineau: [00:37:57]And then we tested and by the way, so I get pissed. Right. I let myself calldown.

I test them at 3.0. My level of like, take a couple of

Richard Aceves: [00:38:06]minutes with a couple of minutes. Yeah.

Julien Pineau: [00:38:08]It wasn't 45. Second me yelling at her. Uh, can you please let's do the test?No, reach out. Say doesn't like needles. I'm like, but you're not which hedoesn't like know because he didn't want to do the test. Cause I can not pokingme with this.

I'm like, that's good shield. You're not, can you, cause Iwanted to know as a test and of course, so airway that last a minute, I callmyself down and I'm like, Oh, let me do the test again. So literally withinfour minutes, max of each other and might at 3.0. If they'll just stop becausethere's a fight that you don't want versus a fight I want, this is a levelthere as well.

So, um, what we've seen is that people anxious have a highlevel of lactate, so I'm like, all right, so just you meet at least youranxiety or tissue to control it. I could. You're obviously going to all thesympathetic side, right. Or no journaling sympathetic. All right. So all Iwould have to do to make you at least not feel such crippling anxiety though.

I don't want to be there because I'm going to have to teachyou to want to be there and stuff. Not wanting to be there, which is anotherthing I would need to take. Not. Lower your level of no adrenaline just loweryour, the level of your sympathetic nervous system, because you'll neversustain me as the one that perceives the world.

He that's the one that tells you to pump the lactate andthen Audrey and Ella and everything. Cause you don't want to, you want to bethere, but you want to take that action and everything. So I was like, insteadof looking at it in such a deterministic way, downstream. Um, Google upstream,just like they doing from serotonin to noradrenaline.

So let me go one step further and go nervous system. So whatI need to do is I need to bring you back from the sympathetic where you're justgoing too far. Like I did not need to fight with oil like that. How do I bringmyself? There's a simple way to not go so far in the sympathetic is to bringthe past sympathetic into action.

So what do we do? We do. Some light cardio with nasalbreathing, a specific type of song, but basically learn teaching you account.Don't tell me not to say basically all the time. Um, bring yourself back to,well, the parasympathetic, we know what to do, that we can use light exerciseslike cardio, not too fast.

We can use breathing, all nasal breathing. We can use highfrequency music or things like this. And that allows you to bring yourself backto while the passing pathetic, not having such a high. Sympathetic reaction allthe time they are following your baseline. So after that, it's a matter of howfar do I want to lower the baseline you don't want because there's no, no onesaid everybody should be able to.

Yeah, it depends on who you are. If you're a super creative,maybe super driven person being at a seven is great, but maybe being at a nineis not, you know what I mean? Maybe. So where is your baseline? Is it a two? Isit a six? Is it eight? Not necessarily where you are now, but where you need tobe to have the life you want to have.

Boomer Anderson: [00:40:47]Okay. So this involves, I'm imagining a lot of questions and conversations withthe client or whoever you're talking to because, um, like you said, a person'sbaseline could be a two, a seven. It really depends on the life that they wantto live

Julien Pineau: [00:41:00]and where they are now. So for example, maybe your baseline should be a five,but you add seven.

Yeah. Okay. So how do I bring you back to five? I could usethat the nasal breathing, all that stuff, but maybe you're at a three and Ineed to, you need to be a five, so now you need to go up, not down. So you needmore sympathetic Nicholas, but some people will go like everyone should be ableto, but that's not true.

Richard Aceves: [00:41:21]But the reaction to stress

Julien Pineau: [00:41:22]is so important because

Richard Aceves: [00:41:24]I mean, I, you see, when you see it in like the extremes, I always bring up theVici documentary. When you see this guy having panic attacks where it'sliterally just a symptom of heart rate, starts to elevate and the whole systemgoes. This is not good.

I'm going to have a panic attack and he goes, and you seeeverybody around him

Julien Pineau: [00:41:41]just calm down, dude.

Richard Aceves: [00:41:42]And there's, you're like, well, that's, you know, I mean, like there'ssomething that could have been done to avoid that. And so I think paying attentionto the reaction to stress and yeah. Understanding that there is no Nopeprotocols or boxes to check, but being able to understand, like we did theassessment yesterday with you being able to understand where you are andunderstanding that, Hey, you know what you're doing all this work.

I can't crash it for the next three days, even though itmight be what you need, but you don't have three days to be state crashed. Sowhat we need to do is we need to slowly build that reaction to stress until Ican get you to a point where you can tolerate that outside stress or coming inthat load coming in.

Right. Okay. So it's all about, you know, basically findingthe levels. Okay. You've made

Julien Pineau: [00:42:26]those in your head

Richard Aceves: [00:42:29]so that it allows you to, it allows me to see how much I can push a person.Right? So on the, on the, on the human aspect, I, you can see the reaction tostress and now being able to understand what needs to be done in order to bringthe lactate levels up or down.

Julien Pineau: [00:42:46]That's the second part of the equation is that is the reaction to stress. Soyou have two sides to this, which is, well, the pills always fail is you have abase. Well, just

Boomer Anderson: [00:42:54]real quick, Julian. So baseline. If we refer as baseline stress level, is that

Julien Pineau: [00:42:58]how no, no, no stress level, because again, they're going to look at it from anegative perspective.

It's your baseline activity level. You know, like mentally,like how high do you want to be? You want to be a two or five or seven, nine.You can maintain, let's say from one to 10, like zero, you'll probably down 10.You it's a panic attack. Right? So you have the baseline of that, but do youneed to be like, kind of on all day or are you more like a chill person?

For example, I need to be on all day. I want to study, I'mgoing to stuff I always want to be borderline aggressive. Rich is always chill.He likes to be chill. He's like, I don't care. I love myself. I like, you know,life is good all the time. I'm like, that's great. I don't know. I need tofucking fuck. Siggi's fuck shit up almost all day.

Not at night, but during the day, that's how I like to live,but that's not, we both function just well, like that is UC has his ownbaseline and I have my baseline. So first you need to establish that and nowcomes what Richard is talking about, which is a reaction to stress. So nowlet's say I'm at a seven all day.

Right. Let's say 10 is panic attack. If my reaction tostress is a plus three, then every time there's a stress, I'm going to have apanic attack. So that means that for me to be at a seven all day, I need tohave a reaction to stress. That is a plus one. So I'm going to have to trainmyself not to overreact, to any stress in life.

Otherwise it's gonna be panic attack left. And right now,Richard, if he's at the two all day, you can have a reaction to stress. That isa plus three. He doesn't care. It's always going to do. It's going to make himfeel it a bit more lively. Good luck. Okay. I need to do work. So his reactionto stress and my reaction to stress have to be different.

So we train that differently, but there's also the reactionto stress that crushes you. That goes, which means some people out of baselineof seven, or let's say they'll be slide more than nine, but every time theyhave a stress, they actually shut down the low world new and the level there'ssympathetic goes down.

That means that reminders three. If I have a baseline of nine,which means I'm borderline panic attack all day. Anytime there's a stress, Iend up at a six. I'm going to think, Oh, this is great. I should be morestressed because I feel better. So now you're going to sabotage your life andmake everything you do so that you're stressed out all the time.

Cause then you feel better because you have a horriblereaction to stress where you're supposed to be a plus one, not a minus three.So imagine if you're in a depressed state or if you're already on a minus oneas a baseline and you have a minus three reaction to stress. Then every timesomething happens, you go in your cocoon and you just can't leave your house.

And that's when we see. But if you are to minus one, whichis always, but you have a reaction to stress that is a plus five, which is bad,but it puts you at a out a plus four, you feel better. So now you're going tolook for stress in order to take yourself out of your depression all day. Sothe whole exercise is to have a baseline where you are at your most functionaland reaction to stress where you are at your most functional.

Where we see problems is people that have a dysfunctionalbaseline and a dysfunctional reaction to stress, but they counteract each otherwhere they end up in a good place. Because then how do you know how to

Boomer Anderson: [00:45:54]is that where I guess people could, um, become addicted to that exactly. Ahundred

Julien Pineau: [00:46:00]percent, 100%.

Richard Aceves: [00:46:01]You try to calm people down naturally, like just doing like what he said, thehigh-frequency music, slow cardio, nasal breathing only. And they're like, Itdoesn't work. And I was like, what do you mean doesn't work that well, I wastrying to do six minute mile pace. I was like, Where, where did you even get?

He's like, well, that's the point? Isn't it to try and stayat 120 beats per minute on the heart rate as fast as you can. I was like, no,the point is just to go listen to music,

Julien Pineau: [00:46:24]just to listen to your own thoughts.

Boomer Anderson: [00:46:26]Wait, you told me yesterday, not to look at my bike with all the gadgets,

Richard Aceves: [00:46:30]but so like that's the thing is people can't be with their own thoughts.

They sabotage it. No,

Julien Pineau: [00:46:34]we had people at a seminar. We had someone saying easy. It's safe to do what wecall this December. Yeah. So 30 to 40 minutes of cardio. And we use the Disneyprincesses songs we call that just needed some bill for that. Right? Why?Because it's high frequency it's up and down with very high frequency pitches.

We should bring safety. Why? Especially with that voice, theway it is, the point is to promote safety. You do that with pure nasalbreathing to standard passing pathetic side, just fast enough that you're not bored,but you don't go to, uh, conflicting thoughts either. Like so that you don'tdon't have a sympathetic reaction, but you push.

So we push a passing Patrik as high as we can do. Right.That allows you to be alone in your head, but not bold in a good place for 30minutes, which is an extremely important skill. So you can be alone withyourself with your own thought, but without having intrusive thought patterns,not what laundry do I need to do what you need to do tomorrow or stuff likethat.

Right? So normally a very calming meditation type exercisesand active, we call it active meditation. Because you're doing somethingphysically, because I need to bring the levels of like tape down. That's whatthe exercise is for. So you use the like tape that you keep pumping becauselike that is a sure.

Yeah. So I'm going to come in down mentally and physicallyby doing this, bringing you at a good baseline. Where are you in sync with yourbody? The heart becoming a huge part of all of this. That's another podcast,but there's a point to this study is very specific to Disney. December HIV willgo up there.

There's a very, very specific, measurable effect within theDecember. Well, to con to, to reach peace in a way, one of the seminar asking,is it safe to do this next December? Have a safe, I was like, minute, we mustnot be talking about the same thing. And he's like, no, no, no, I'm notkidding. I had two people doing this in December who got so violent.

They broke their phone by the end

Boomer Anderson: [00:48:24]of it. W w Y

Julien Pineau: [00:48:26]I'm going to get to that. And so I'm like, what do you mean violent? They go,like they got in a murderous rage out of these nannies, Samuel I'm like, yougot a murderous rage listening to let it go. Yeah. And Mona, I was like,there's no ready. Go give me a break.

Like even a Weber from Belgium, Sanjit it in his consultant.I think it's a good song. Exactly. I still love it. Um, And the guy got in themilitary was rich. Why? Because, and I said, let me guess cops on military andguys were both ex military, turning into cops. They cannot bring thesympathetic system down.

They cannot be alone in their thoughts. That's one. And theycannot bring the sympathetic system down when they do that. Relaxation hurts.It's the entire sympathetic system. We're not going there. And then, so theykept fighting it. And every time I tried to bring them down the sympatheticmodes to go fill the other the other way.


Boomer Anderson: [00:49:18]So Richard, you work with a lot of these sort of high-performer people. And isthat similar situation? Cause I imagine X just because I came from this world.Yes. Bankers being able to sit alone with their thoughts probably doesn't

Richard Aceves: [00:49:30]so that's, I mean, I take them. To them not being with their thoughts.

So you experienced it yesterday. I can see when people startto want to disconnect and not be with their thoughts or not even not be withtheir thoughts. Sometimes they want to be with their thoughts too much to notactually do anything. Um, and that's when you start to see, like, they starttalking back to you all the time.

So I'm just looking for different signs of the body to seeif you're actually being present with yourself, or if you're just starting tokind of endure being there and just totally zone out. That's usually becauseyou're starting to touch very sensitive. Things happening in, in, in your, inyour body and your brain.

Right? So it's, it's that, it's just, it's learning tounderstand who that person is and maybe they can't take an entire 45 minutes.What did we just start with five? What did we just start with 10 and then, youknow, you slowly start to keep you start building it up and, and it's, youknow, one thing that you do.

No, no, it says it's not good enough to not hate yourself.It's we need to learn to love ourselves again. And it's that it just, sometimesit takes time because when you're with, you know, when you've been in financeand you've dealt with probably the most asphalt people you could probably everthink of.

Yeah. The moral or value, the moral scale starts to shift alittle bit. And the disconnect from yourself to starts to go to just externalvalidations. You can expect 10 years, 15 years, one year of that to be fixed inone session or in a month or in six

Julien Pineau: [00:50:52]weeks. So function our world. Yeah.

Richard Aceves: [00:50:54]Yeah. And the coffee amount and the

Julien Pineau: [00:50:57]whatever pills to cocaine,

Richard Aceves: [00:51:00]you know what I mean?

Like all that stuff, stuff starts to have a buildup. And soyou can't expect that fix to happen overnight. Like it'd be locked talkingmilitary, like I've talked to some of those guys and the amount of shit they'veseen and have to have gone through you can't expect that person to listen tomana and then be like, all right, I'm happy.

Right. It's going to, there's going to be a lot that needsto come through and it's.

Julien Pineau: [00:51:40]Well, your, your heart, doesn't just pump it. Say it's a rhythm, it's a rhythmthat gets, that gets there and we can measure it. It's in Hertz is 1.1 Hertzwhen it gets to a specific wave, like, you know, a sine wave. Like I be seeing,he brings every other organs that are based on that rhythm in sync,

Boomer Anderson: [00:52:01]and then the resonant frequency.

Julien Pineau: [00:52:03]Yeah, but like the whole body gets into resonance. Like it's been measured, soquizzes stuff, everyone, but that comes from it comes from cardiac coherence.So that means that it's stabilizing the heart in a specific part. And that'swhat the point of, um, of didn't it, December Sunbelt to a degree is that allwe do is to get to cardiac coherence when the body's in sync everything.

But when you get there, everything gets in sync. You opendoors. And as Richard was, you're saying. That doesn't mean you're ready toopen those doors. Yeah. That's the problem though. Everybody says, I want that.You might not like what you see. And I remember like when you push your body 14hours a day and you take the coffee and you take your stuff, what do you alwaystake?

Uppers? What is cocaine? What is all this it's uppers?Everybody's going on? Upsells. I don't care if you taking mess. If you'retaking coffee or it's appeals, appeals, appeals pills that has a major effecton your heart. Yeah, your heart beats a lot faster. And then you addicted tothe sympathetic to the stress too.

That's why people are souls also because it's a sympatheticfix. It's that constant is fighting everybody. Your heart is constantly beingpounded. You do that for 10 years, like, and now I'm trying to bring you back.The whole STEM is like, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah. Like you can't justjumped into cardiac coherence like that, even though that's the goal.

And then that's what Richard is talking about is bringingpeople like that idea is simple of cardiac coherence. Getting them there. Yes.That's what the magic is more work, but that's what you saw right there. Thenwith your, uh, with your military guys, like suddenly telling them to go there.Okay. But what if it opens the doors?

Okay, well that doesn't mean you're going to like what yousee though. Like that's not what we promise by the way

Richard Aceves: [00:53:40]and whatever they have a deployment coming up. Do you want to be opening up?Those doors and then having them have to deal with that shit while they're ondeployment. And now they don't want to go do the job they're supposed to do

Julien Pineau: [00:53:48]when you have to shoot somebody

Richard Aceves: [00:53:49]when there's, you know,

Julien Pineau: [00:53:51]always them getting shocked.


Richard Aceves: [00:53:52]It's them getting shot. Like then at that point it's like, okay, so then Ican't have you connect. Like we had a, I have a firefighter as well, and I waslike, if you're still active and you're doing all this stuff, the connectionyou want to have the connection there, but you also need to have thatdisconnect because you do need to go straight to doing your thing.

And there's a reason that I'm not an EMT or a firefighter ora cop. Like you you're gonna see shit that people should not be seeing atraumatizes you. Right. And so that, that, that part of it, there does need tobe a disconnect. There needs to be a balance, right? So that's where you needto work with each person, because they're like, I, whenever I have clients thatare like, no, I'm a very normal and I'm like, you're the most fucked up onehardship,

Julien Pineau: [00:54:34]you know what I mean?

She said, I get to

Richard Aceves: [00:54:36]see it. And they're like, well, and then they start talking about certainthings, but like, I can always tell. Right. And you, you always like, okay, sothat's where. You can see, I can see where their baseline is, their reaction.Like I know exactly how much I'm going to be able to push versus I have peoplethat will come and they'll tell me every single trauma, even like theirsprained finger.

And you're like, you're going to be one of those. Those arethe ones that you can really kind of rev a little bit more, but so you start topay attention to those patterns.

Julien Pineau: [00:55:01]So, but that's the key. So, so when you have someone, do you stop to, do youstart with the reaction to stress or do you start with a baseline?

Boomer Anderson: [00:55:08]That's a good question.

Julien Pineau: [00:55:09]That's a really good question. And that's where we show these in these thathe'll have to see. And that's what we're trying to teach is that you'll have tosee if the reaction to stress is the issue, or if the baseline is the issueagain, like that's just, cause you ended up at a six, like once you train, itdoes not mean that you're getting there the right way.

Maybe you're getting there from the wrong baseline and thewrong reaction to stress. What we need is a right baseline and the rightreaction to stress and that. So which one do we start with? How long does thattake? Do I, those are all very good question and very hard to answer. Andthat's where the magic of ritual doing what he does comes in easy.

He'll know which one of the two he should start with. Andhow far do I go? Because if you go from a nine baseline to a three. Your wholelife is going to come crashing down.

Richard Aceves: [00:55:50]Well, let's

Boomer Anderson: [00:55:51]talk about yesterday. We can certainly talk about it yesterday, but before,before we do that, how many people actually know what level of baseline do theywant to be in myself?

I have, like, I can talk about this. Like, I have a certainperception of where I'd want to be like B be switched on quite. For most of theday, right. And then be able to sleep at night. But how many people actuallyknow and have the self perception that are able to tell it?

Richard Aceves: [00:56:18]I think that when I work with clients, I feel like they always a move thegoalpost once I get them where they want, want to be.

Um, and it's always more about just having the conversation,like being able to have the conversation and having the clear expectation. Forthem understanding that they have no fucking clue where they are and what Imean by they have no fucking clue where they are. It's not a bad thing. It's,it's almost always a split identity.

They want to be here because of the super ego, if you will.This is where my people, my client, my community thinks I am. This is where Ineed to be performing. And then their true self that it is like, yeah, butdude, this is what I really want. Like, I have that a lot with gym owners andeverything that are like, okay, I need to perform and be this, this, thisvisualization of what it is, but I don't enjoy it.

I don't want to be that. And then they have a really hardtime splitting. So I always tell people, I will allow you to see the truestyou, what you decide to do with it. Is going to be up to you, right? So you sayyou want to be here because you have all these tasks at hand and you're havingthese projects and work and life and everything, and then your tree is goinglike, yeah, bro.

But I just kind of want to go chill at the beach for alittle bit and you know, just not have so much fucking pressure of having to bethis persona. Where is it that we, we can meet someone in the middle. I'm notsaying we need to, I need to totally, but I will show your

Julien Pineau: [00:57:41]trust form of you and you get to decide

Richard Aceves: [00:57:43]that that's not up to me,

Julien Pineau: [00:57:44]but that's it, by the way, that's the entire aisle.

Uh, concept of base all of the psychoanalysis though, superegoversus the ed fraud is the first one to bring the fights, not the first one,but he brought that up and make a courtyard of that, right? Is you versus thepressures of society? Where do you stay? That's a very hard question and oneeach has to answer, and this will change your world time, by the way.

Richard Aceves: [00:58:06]Yeah, for sure. And, and it's, it's again, it's that balance. So like I have,uh, the fighters that I work with is it's funny because I can see who wants tobe the champion and who's pretending they're going to be the champion. Yeah.You know what I mean? Like you can really see cause I'm like, dude, I get toshow you and you could see in their face, like what the burn, the questionsthey're like, they fucking, almost start to quit and I'm like, dude, do youwant to be here?

Do you not like this? Isn't you know what I mean? Like, it'sgoing to count when you're in the ring, but this is where you get to answer it.Like, do you really want to be in that ring or are you going to be there? Justfucking. Throwing the boxes to get paid type thing. Yeah. And which there's nomoney in?

Well, no, but it's

Julien Pineau: [00:58:41]there. That's a good thing because for example, is do you want to be there inthe ring? Do you want me there in life? For example, me being there in the ringwas never have a good motivation to be on the questions. That's why I couldn'tmake it because I didn't have it like hurting. The other guy did not.

Give me that arousal, my Tyson had all this stuff, but theidea of do I want to be here in life that makes me go onto slate every singletime. Like just saying it is enough for me to like, just put this right. Allthe way to right now. He's like, I want to be where I want to be in life, butnot in the ring.

I didn't have it in the ring. So I wasn't, I'm not a goodfighter. Yeah. I can be very technical, but I'm not a good fighter cause Idon't have it, but for life. Fuck. Yeah, yeah.

Richard Aceves: [00:59:17]Yeah. So that's that, that's that question, right? Because if he's at a highend level about to get his black belt has been doing jujitsu for so long, youhave that question where you're like, Do I want, like, where do you go?

Julien Pineau: [00:59:29]Do I really kill them? Like they don't Ceylon kill. I know I have the level,but I never got it. I never got the black male, but I do have the level. Andfor me, honestly, that was enough. I still don't want to go back to just tospell it for the too, the black badge itself. I was like, yeah, it's not enoughfor me to kill no life models, not doing stuff, but that's me, by the way.

I'm not saying. That's what people should. It just eats me.But you have to NCL that question like that. The superego stuff has almost noeffect on me. Very little. No, you cannot say it. Everybody's very, veryliberal. That is not what pushes me like the, it for me, I'm mostly there, butso each has any changes in life.

It didn't follow me. Let's be honest, but, uh, That's thequestion everybody has to win. So,

Boomer Anderson: [01:00:13]yeah. And so most of this process, a lot of this process, I think you mentionedthis yesterday was unpeeling the layers of the onion to actually uncover whatnot the super ego wants or the default mode network ego, right?

Richard Aceves: [01:00:28]Yeah. So th and that's what I do, right. Is I allow the observation side of thenervous system to take control

Julien Pineau: [01:00:34]and just have you truly

Richard Aceves: [01:00:36]act. The narration that you'll have in your head came afterwards. Right. Sothat's why I said, just go home, listen to Disney music. Don't pay attention toanything nasal breathing only.

And that's when you started to have those realconversations, like, Oh, suck. Right. And so then I'll just keep peeling awayuntil you, until one day you're going to be going home. Or I have people likein the shower or at the gym, they'll have the breakdown and it's becausethey're realizing. They can't hide from themselves anymore.

There's no outside stimulus to disconnect from themselves. Andthat's what I do is I've forced you to connect with who you truly are withoutany bullshit.

Boomer Anderson: [01:01:17]And so how does the let's connect? The muscles to connecting with humans reallyare, uh, because, and maybe this is a good point to talk about yesterday,because yesterday you took me through a series of exercises, which it was avery different modality than anything I've ever experienced before, in thesense that it wasn't like three by tens or whatever it was, we were goingthrough different series of exercises.

What is the sort of. Maybe you can walk us through just ifyou're willing to share this, the, uh, the reason behind that and just sort of,how does the muscle represent the connection to everything?

Richard Aceves: [01:01:56]So we started playing around after the filler genetic hierarchy and we startedkind of noticing the breathing and just these overwhelming sensations andexpressions coming from the body.

And then we started to put together just patterns ofdifferent. Backgrounds and different muscles that were turned on or turned off.So if, if, if we, you see patterns like with CrossFitters, you'll see certainmuscles that are overtaking others and certain muscles that stop firing you seerugby players, same exact thing, military, same thing.

Um, people that have had sexual trauma will have a certainamount of certain muscles that turn on and turn off. And so I look at thestructural muscles and I tried to get a true. Neural connection with them, ifyou will like it. True action.

Julien Pineau: [01:02:42]A true

Richard Aceves: [01:02:43]fight out of the muscle. Um, not just a contraction, but a true fight out ofthe muscle.

And I started to notice that you have a, would it be likebehavioral conditioning, almost happening with the muscles? Um, and so that'sbasically what I do is I see people in a different lens and as I start to lookat them and I start to work with them, I see them as to what they true. I seethem for the, the truest self that wants to come out and things that may beblocking that from happening.

And so I just start to work with certain muscles that arevery different in nature that you need to force them to act. Um, and I startedgoing out of that way. And so that's basically what I do is depending on, on,on what you need, what you need work on emotionally and behaviorally. I will doit through training.

And so I started to do this and I wouldn't tell peoplebecause how do you take people? Like the emotions are stuck

Julien Pineau: [01:03:41]in the muscles. Cause we still don't know exactly.

Richard Aceves: [01:03:42]Yeah. And so, but all I would do is I would come to John. I was like, Hey, Ithink this means this. And I think this may and he goes, okay, And then I wouldgo train clients and I would see the transformation of behavior as they startedto connect more and more with certain levels.

I was like,

Julien Pineau: [01:03:57]Oh, that's interesting. Let's give you an example. Just one example. Forexample, we saw that people like there's a connection between safety, thefeeling of safety and hamstrings. Yeah. Like you see it all the time, thisstuff like that patterns, or would you just keep seeing. Again, and again andagain, so we had like, like all good science, which is based in France model,like it's hypothesis versus observation, right.

We made this up in prediction to wild Selton muscle, doingcertain things. And so far the observation come back, always, always the same.So the only thing is Russia knows exactly how to do it. We know we've mappedthis, we call it emotional mapping. We've mapped this fairly precisely, I thinkover the last five years, which will in me.

Uh, my job is to come up as to why this happens. And so farI've failed. I don't have ideas, I have ideas, but he's still like it's goingback into Maxwell's demon and all that stuff. Like this seems to be somethingthere. I just w we didn't rake is someone who started at work. A hundred yearsago, and I think we are going one step further.

And then he did. I think he was wrong. That's going to soundarrogant, but he was wrong on a few things. And cause he didn't have theknowledge of the number system that we have now, the neuroscience andeverything. And I, I do believe we taking it in a way he's working, going it furtherto weld that and.

On that road. We've seen connections of specific type ofpatterns, emotions, and specific muscle groups, always the larger ones. Andthat's the work. So when we want to access something, we go through thatmuscle. Cool. And that's what we show has been doing.

Richard Aceves: [01:05:30]And then I can tell depending I have this. Chain of muscles network until if,you know, like when you feel like your back goes out, like you have backspasms, whatever it is, depending on that small muscle, it's sending the signalof pain or discomfort.

I can tell what you're trying to block now. That's the coolnew one. And I think I'm very close on it. I'm very close on all of them

Boomer Anderson: [01:05:52]in terms of what you're trying to block. What do you mean there in terms of,

Richard Aceves: [01:05:55]um, like if you're, if I'm trying to get you to find your, your Peck and you gostraight up here in the neck, it means something versus if you go behind theshoulder blade, Okay.


Julien Pineau: [01:06:06]if you try to over compensate yeah. Like we asking you to pay, but your stuffis, you're not gonna, I'm not gonna use the pack. I'm going to use somethingelse, whatever you use in order to not use the pig will tell us something.That's what he's talking about. Like, if you use your neck versus the shoulderblade, those are, they're both trying to avoid the pig, but they're avoidingthe pig for different reason and you're still not using the pig by the way.

So we still have to get there. So you do just two differentways of avoiding. Using the Peck, but depending on where, on what muscle youuse to avoid using the peg that tells us what the root cause is of you notusing the pig. Yep. Wow.

Boomer Anderson: [01:06:44]Okay.

Richard Aceves: [01:06:46]Yeah, because that was like yesterday with the oblique opener, I can help you.

I was like, Hey, did this happen? You're like, well, yeah, alittle bit. Yeah.

Boomer Anderson: [01:06:54]I mean, towards the end of it, it was just because I do have. Here we go. We'regoing to go, we're going to go down this because I wanted to ask you guys this,um, separately, but obviously psychedelics is, I mean, a little bit of aRenaissance, right?


Julien Pineau: [01:07:07]Joel gun is the world.

Boomer Anderson: [01:07:09]Yeah. Joe Rogan is to blame and I've had some past experience with it. Andtowards the end of yesterday, there was something that. Uh, we were doing with,I believe it was the oblique opener, um, towards the, towards the end where I hadalmost the exact same feeling that I've had on DMT,

Richard Aceves: [01:07:27]which I could have taken you there, but again, you have to work and everything,so

Julien Pineau: [01:07:31]we can take this fall.

Yeah, we've done it. We did. This was rich. Well, we, youknow, Crush ourselves for like three days and I've done the workout. I couldn'tsleep for three days. We've done this. Like it's drug, we just do it

Boomer Anderson: [01:07:44]on for black Friday. You can do this too. Right.

Richard Aceves: [01:07:49]we'll go do it. But so basically I do it in an I and I, I started wanting tochange my name from doing assessments to doing movement Iowasca cause I thoughtit sounded funny. Um,

Julien Pineau: [01:07:58]but yeah, so

Richard Aceves: [01:07:59]yeah, basically, and I just do it in an active way. Right. So I always. We talkabout being active and passive. And I think that.

We're in a phase where everything that we're trying toaccomplish to become more centered is always done passively. Right? I'm notsaying that DMT doesn't have awesome results or anything, but it's, it'sshowing you shit that maybe you're not ready for people that have bad trips.Right.

Julien Pineau: [01:08:25]Well, it's someone else showing you the door anyway.

You're not, there is more fears versus New York, right?Showing you the doors and what's thing cross. It is another, all the passivestuff is still like, how much do you take. Because based on how much you take,you're going to go further. Right. But who's to say are far, you should goonly, you knows that you will not know that.

So that's the problem. When we have also with people that domanipulation, physically and release emotion, I'm like, how the fuck do youknow. Which one to release and how do we go in this? It's still someone else incontrol of your release of emotion, which fundamentally I believe is wrong. Sowhile we trying to do is to give you the tools to go, as far as you should go,but only, you know, we don't,

Boomer Anderson: [01:09:04]and this is where you're reading in the eyes.

Richard Aceves: [01:09:05]Yeah, exactly. A lot of read the, everything that's happening in the body, butyeah, the eyes, the face has a lot to do with it. The way you're breathing, theway just small, small details that are happening in the shoulders and the footat the foot level as well. Uh, I just, I look at the whole thing and I juststart to see what, how much you can actually tolerate.

Julien Pineau: [01:09:22]So th the reason we're not going to call it movement our Scott, even thoughthat's what this is, because if he says it, then people will come for that. Andthen they'll fail because they have the expectation of take me on a psychedelictrip. And the second thing that they just closed the door, because now theyexpect Richard to take them there tonight became passive.

And the key of that, we're going back to Maxwell demon. I'ma builder. Wanting to be there versus not wanting to be there on the flagversus flight. It's that, it's the intent that you put in a workout. If we sayour scout, they're going to come in a passive way to be chill, to say, give methe drug. And then now you don't want to be there.

You're not present. And you failed every single already. Thepoint is that you do it. Not Richard. Richard is going to is Morpheus. Not newis going to give you the keys and you're going to walk through the door, butyou have to be active in that information management Maxwell demon. That is thecore of every sing there.

So that's why we didn't call it our scout, even thoughthat's what this is, because people will come with the wrong idea and alreadyhave failed. So,

Boomer Anderson: [01:10:24]uh, your SEO on movement Iowasca would be quite high.

Richard Aceves: [01:10:27]Okay.

Julien Pineau: [01:10:31]yeah.

Boomer Anderson: [01:10:32]Yeah. Um, I want to bring it back to baseline. How are you guys on time? By theway,

Julien Pineau: [01:10:35]always fun to keep going.

Boomer Anderson: [01:10:36]Cool. Uh, the baseline in using. Using training to manipulate, assign, we'retalking a little bit about emotional mapping, but a lot of the audience is sortof representative of what I told you yesterday.

Just sort of people with backgrounds and high pressureindustries, uh, lots of anxiety, perhaps depression as well. Um, we talkedabout Disney December in terms of how we can use that a little bit. What aresome of the other modalities of movement that we can use to manipulate the notmanipulate? That's the wrong word?

Um, to. Uh, maybe re uh, reposition baseline.

Julien Pineau: [01:11:13]Well, she wanted it to go up. For example, there's a bill in the question. Soif we go from a deterministic point of view, which is wrong, but again, that'swhat we will simply

Boomer Anderson: [01:11:22]take it.

Julien Pineau: [01:11:24]For example, let's just look at the, let's say that your baseline is lowercompared to what you would want.

So again, oversimplification, but I wouldn't want asympathetic. Uh, never sees them to kick in a little bit more. So that means whatthat means. No adrenaline a little bit higher. Yeah. That means lactate levelsa little bit higher. So you'd have to way to do that. You could pick fightswith your spouse and, or fuck up your life and stress yourself out, which wouldraise your level of like that, which we see all the time.

Or you could do strength training. So. Uh, I don't want togo into too much technical stuff, but for example, like data is not just enoughto produce like data. Like data has to be carried to the right place as to belike, for example, if you produce a lot of lactate physically past a certainlevel, it will be actually brought to the brain as fuel.

Normally the brain uses the astrocytes user glucose throughthe astrocyte to produce his own lactate. But if you have a certain level oflike that in the body, he can cross the blood brain bio to feed the braindirectly. Right. But it's not that simple to get the lactate to the brain Ineed what is called an MCT, which is a transporter of like data.

It turns out that for the brain you need the one or thefour, the four is only produced in a type two X muscle fiber. So the explosivemuscle fiber. So if I want that, like take to get to the brain. I need toproduce it like through explosive training. Otherwise you won't have the MCTsthat you need to carry it to the brain, which means it will just sit in thebody and not go where it needs to be, which is another problem in itself.

So you, I mean, it's never that simple. And so that meansthat in order to raise your baseline, I need to get you to get stronger.Explosively, uh, but not just run faster, you need to get stronger. Andexposure therapy comes in as well from a psychological perspective and evenphysiological. But the point is to raise the baseline.

I need you to get stronger, more explosive, just lifts, justget strong. Right? So what, what do we see in your world of high performance?They all are dictate to cardio. Yeah, you white because Scalia was a type onemuscle fibril type one muscle fiber absorbs like they do not produce it typetwo muscle fibers, but you sit type one, um, consumes it.

So if I, the level of anxiety all the time, because I'mtired because I don't like what I do, whatever. I have a shitty life. I producelike date a way to feel better to lower. Not the reaction to stress, but mybaseline would be to do cardio. It would make me feel better. Right. But thenyou're not the date that you need for the brain to perform at his best.

So now you're stuck because you keep trying to consume likethat, but you need the lactate in the brain, but the only way you're going toget it, there is by doing strength, but strength when he produces like that, mystress, you out that first, because you're not dealing with this stuff. And sonow you can get into a vicious cycle of needing the light, but not producingit.

And. To put your seats in. You need to be more anxious. Soyou're going to fuck up your life even more so cardio in a wheeled way can leadyou to fuck up your life even more.

Richard Aceves: [01:14:17]Yep.

Julien Pineau: [01:14:18]And we see it in long distance runners where literally I've seen some, like,instead of getting strong, they will start to sabotage themselves.

And one of the reasons would be the need for leg pain, whichwould make sense if you understand the coalition. So there are different waysto create like that. Let's do it with strength is going to turn out a lotbetter for you.

Boomer Anderson: [01:14:35]So strength, but you're also assessing like their environment, right? Becausethe environment that they.

You the people that you interact with your, your familymembers, et cetera, are gonna, I mean, as you highlighted with your daughter,uh, influence your lactate levels. And so this is where looking at it,reductionist, it's pretty stupid.

Julien Pineau: [01:14:54]Of course, that's where the pills kill me. It was pills is taking the lows awayand taking the highs away.

But so it's doping for athletes. Like I know your people aregoing to hit me when I say this, but you can. Okay, good. You guys are going tolove this. Um, I'm taking an athlete, he's training as much as he can, and hehas gained the strength that he thinks. He can gain is tired. He's underrecovery. And so he thinks, let me have more carbs, let me have more coffee soI can train more.

Okay. He does that instead of getting smarter in histraining, in understanding how to train better is just doing more because moreis better. Right. We all know this, right. So more will spend doing this stuffat some point when I've had. There's only so much coffee I can have. I cansleep at night.

There's only so much carbs, so much sugar I can have. I'mrealizing that I can get to the next stage because all I'm doing is more, thatrequires always a bigger fix for the sympathetic nervous STEM to keep going. ThenI might be tempted to go to all drugs. So at first anti-inflammatories becausethe sympathetic is completely out of control.

My joints are aching. All right. So anti-inflammatory thenpainkillers then eventually steroids. Yeah, because I need to recover better.So now I start to take steroids for recovery. Then eventually I need to takemore and then I should keep moving forward and forward and forward until nowI'm on drugs and a real drugs.

And then, okay, this is exactly the steps the high-profileare taking. This is what those pills do. They all know adrenalin receptor, bigblockers. Right? So what do they do? They work 12, 14 hours a day. They'restressed out. They're tired and they're angry. So now comes the sympathetic,fix coffee hugs or whatever.

And then at some point the buddy wants to crash and the lowsbecome unbearable. You wake up in the morning and you just feel that shit youcan't get out of bed. You fucking hate everything. You know why? Because you'retired and you're angry because you don't like what your life is doing to you.So. How do I block those lows?

I can either change your own mint or I take pills that allowme to stay in the center. Right? Guess what? That's doping. That's theequivalent of my guy over there doing the steroids. So now those pills thatwere created to stop people from jumping, I'll just a form of doping for thehigh performers. Yeah.

And that, but the problem is now you're four years in andyou've taken the lowest. That's true. So that you can go back to work the nextday and work your 12 to 14 hours. But now you've taken the highs out of life aswell. And are you fucking hate everything even more? Except if you get off thepills, The laws are going to be even worse, because remember you got four yearsout of it.

We see the same thing with doping people. Now that they'vebeen owned massive amount of steroids for four, five, 10 years. If you takethem out. Then what the hormone system is fucked is I know it's going to takeyou two years to get you, if you can, to get your testosterone back to normalhormones, those two years, no one does.

If you did want to do that, you wouldn't be on pills in thefirst place because you would have fixed it back then, because now he's twice,10 times harder to fix it. That's why we see with the high pill formulas. Yousold your soul to the devil for those pills to keep working. And now you'regoing to have to pay the Piper and.

It's rough, but he's doping

Boomer Anderson: [01:18:02]for the cognitive high performer. Um, that's sort of the first, the first step,if you will, or I'm just going through my own past experience with this, thefirst step seems to be okay. Sugar, coffee, whatever it is to keep you awake.Aren't you just we've talked about astrocytes before you're just blowing upyour astrocytes and then at some point that that mechanism, which used to serveyou in order to.

Get the lactate in there. That's gone.

Julien Pineau: [01:18:28]Well, your sympathetic is gone sooner or later. And so when the sympathetic isgone, guess what happens? We're going to go to freeze because now theexpenditure of energy has run out. Usually can't anymore. Like every time youpushing the buyer and you're hitting the survival mechanisms that just going topush it back harder and harder until suddenly you just can't anymore.

And here comes a massive depression. And what do they do?They give you appeal so you can go back to all the center. So again, going toall the sympathetic in the meantime that wage inside is building up just asmuch as that incapacity to deal with the fatigue that you have emotionally,psychologically, and physically.

And so you're just pushing that, that line even fell downand fell down and fell down. But sooner or later, You have to pay the Piper.And so cognitively speaking, you will start to come down. And so now you needto up the dosage and the dosage, and now new drugs coming. So it's your drug dosomething, but the no adrenaline level have to level off because now at firstthey were too high, but then the quest too low, and the appeals allow you tocome back in the center if I'm too high or too low, doesn't matter if I thinkthe appeals out one boy, but it's doping.

One-on-one. That's what this is, this is the athletes. Thisis the same reasoning as athletes have to go on steroids and you face the sameissues on the way out, which means how do you get the body to do what it does?So I've taken a lot of people out of the pills right. Lately working on this,but you have to understand one simple truth is when I take the pills awaybefore you feel amazing.

So you did the pills cause you were angry and tired. Yeah.Why don't we stop taking the pills away before you feel amazing and happy andyou get the highs, guess what? You're going to be. I yelled in angry. Cause I'mgoing to have to take you back there. I'm going to have to go through that totake you to high, feeling better about yourself.

And I be saying, it's not going to take a week and I have todeal with the physiological thing that you did. So I need to get you astronger, I need to get you fiddle. I need to do the Disney December. I need tofix the sympathetic fixes that you have nutrition or their stuff. And theneventually we'll have to face the fact that you.

That's live that you're having the 14 hour days, six days aweek and less stuff. No one can do it without help. And so you crash, which inyour world is the worst possible thing. One can hear. This is the ultimatesource of humiliation is to not being able to grind.

Boomer Anderson: [01:20:47]Because everybody in that world is just sorta, how do I know?

How do I work harder? How do I sleep less? And how do I lookgood, naked? That's all they care about.

Julien Pineau: [01:20:54]Exactly. It's all. But so all the stuff, your stuff is basically a measurableby others. That's what matters. And so now I'm going to take away the number ofhours that you can, that you can work. You're going to look like the guy whocan't grind, who's weak, mentally do the level of judging.

In that world is equivalent at the level of judging withathletes. It's just exactly the same world. Performers are high performers, andwe see that with powerlifters. So guys we'll just use cocaine. You've gotstairways on work, but they don't go to bench under this number, or they're notgoing to squat on them.

This number I'm like, yeah. Oh, that's true. So shit,

Boomer Anderson: [01:21:30]I haven't heard, I haven't heard of cocaine and powerlifting other than theWest side. No, no, no,

Julien Pineau: [01:21:35]no, no, no, no. But you should see the amount of drugs detect now though. Yeah.I mean, actually bodybuilding is crazy or they shouldn't

Richard Aceves: [01:21:42]deal with

Julien Pineau: [01:21:45]the Psalms.

Whatever was cool.

Boomer Anderson: [01:21:46]Yeah. I mean, SARMs, I've heard of being used. Even in the anti-aging world,right. In terms of

Julien Pineau: [01:21:52]quantities, man. Yeah. You should, if you can do a line of Coke a week or oncea month and be fine. No, but some people do and they never get addicted to it,then it's just fine. It's like DMT and all that stuff.

I don't do it, but I've no problem with it. If you do it andyou get functional. Results out of it. And you, do you have fun once a month,you go out or you do, you go to Tomorrowland and you're on drugs for threedays. If she can come back and you'll find that it's all God who I have noproblem with the psychedelic has been part of.

Mankind forever. If you smoke a joint once in a while torelax at night, so you sleep better. Why is that a problem? That's all we'retalking about is now used to stop smoking a joint at nine in the morning. Nowyou need to do, you know, like the drug, the cocaine every single day, just towork. Now, we talking about a poem.

So. The hostage is man. It's like what you see in thestrengths book now, like detailed look, so TLT levels, which is about a hundredmilligrams of testosterone a week. Guys, take two grams, five grams. I've heardfive grams at West side, like five grams. That's a year worth of a normal TLT ayear. Wow. In a week.

Wow. They don't talk a hundred milligrams. They talk soinjuries. I did 10 millimeter wheels I did there and it, uh, it's, it's, it'sthe most insane stuff ever, but in the high performers world, they have tounderstand you're doing the same when you're on 50 milligram on this or thisand switch drugs and visiting.

Guess what you're doing the exact same shit to take you.Once you've crossed this up at night to take you out, we can do it. What areyou going to take some work?

Boomer Anderson: [01:23:20]So. Do you even look at this in terms of caffeine? Right? Because caffeine, Iguess, would be like a,

Julien Pineau: [01:23:26]do you need, okay. One coffee in the morning?

Yeah. Cause you like it. Okay. So let's talk about caffeinefor a second East coffee. The first thing you do out of bed.

Boomer Anderson: [01:23:35]Are we talking about me

Julien Pineau: [01:23:36]or high-profile mills?

Boomer Anderson: [01:23:38]Uh, I would assume that a lot of people

Julien Pineau: [01:23:41]do you take that coffee because you need the stimulation because otherwise theworld is doll and you cannot see anything out of it.

That happens a lot. So if the first thing you do is get acoffee. So is because you need the sympathetic because what the sympatheticdoes also, is it in make, it gets your senses more acute? Why? Because the bellis coming when the bear is coming, you have to be able to be careful, but so.That attentive thing that you get, that's a sympathetic reaction.

Are you getting a sympathetic reaction? Because you go like,out of my life, I'm going to chill training today. I'm going to do a podcastand everything, and you're already up going like, Oh, I feel good. Let's, let'sgo kill this world. And I'm like, let's go kill it. Yeah. That's you. If youneed to get that reaction from coffee, first thing in the morning, guess what?

It's not you.

Boomer Anderson: [01:24:23]So it's all about really intention and purpose.

Julien Pineau: [01:24:26]Always. Yeah, always, always, always, always. Do you get coffee because youcan't get the bus any other way, then you have a problem. Then that's a fixedlunch with them

Boomer Anderson: [01:24:33]taste

Julien Pineau: [01:24:34]so good then that's okay then can you have the caffeine?

Boomer Anderson: [01:24:38]I drink a lot of decaf

Julien Pineau: [01:24:39]then.

Okay. Then you like the taste of coffee? That's fine. But,so that's the thing between also one coffee. Right in the morning already. Ifyou take an hour on your day started, you get a coffee, you get a bump. Okay.One is fine. Do you take one Oh six or 12? Or are you a soda sugar? Like, it'salways the same man.

Like, you know, you have to know the difference when it's afix or just a pleasure. It's something you enjoy. That's awesome. Cool. When hebecomes a fixed, you have to be able to look in the mirror and go like, allright, like, why am I doing this for. I mean, cause I enjoyed the taste orcause I need that to just go through my day, then it's an entire differentcorneal session.

Cause now you're going down a specific path. You're notlistening to your body secretly. Yeah. Which he always comes down to. So.

Boomer Anderson: [01:25:23]Uh, before I move into really what will become sort of final four rapid firequestions. I want to hear what's the future of strong fit as you guys are everevolving. Yeah. Cause you guys are really pushing it.

Like I enjoy everything that you put out and you really,anything from, we didn't even get into the protocol. Uh, but it's reallypushing new boundaries and I enjoy that. What's the future look like.

Richard Aceves: [01:25:51]I think the future will be redefining the way people look at fitness andmovement as a whole about allowing people that are passionate about helpingothers, being able to come in the forefront and truly being able to make thenext evolution of training.

Um, and I think that, you know, it was, it was funny causewe were sitting. We're in 2020 already. So we were sitting five years ago at acoffee shop and I told Julian, what do you want out of strong fit? And he said,I want to change mental health for the better I want to, I want to better it. Iwant to figure out the solution for it.

Uh, I was like, at this time, we're just doing movement onthe, and I was like, yeah, all right. I was like, let's start with fixingdeadlifts. You know,

Julien Pineau: [01:26:41]he looked at me

Richard Aceves: [01:26:44]and I, and I think that it's starting to get there. So I think that. Outside ofthe evolution that we'll have within the fitness industry and the healthindustry.

I think that we will be able to create. What will be commonsense of how the body works for the regular person? I think that when you tryand talk about health to people and they have no clue, they're extremelyignorant about their own body, their own health. Um, and when you talk to anybody,they have PhD level master level, you know, PhD plus level, and they talk insuch an elitist form that makes you feel ignorant and not want to learn more.

Julien Pineau: [01:27:20]Yeah. Right. No shit.

Richard Aceves: [01:27:22]Yeah. And so I think that. Being able to have the connection between thoseworlds and deliver a message that's very clear, simple, and practical willallow strong fit eight to grow massively. But I think it'll allow the evolutionto happen on a mass population on how they can educate themselves aboutthemselves.

Julien Pineau: [01:27:46]What I want is that it's mental health. Yeah. I want to improve it. And so. Ithink what I want. I want to be a translator of Galveston in a way, but notjust the world that is using his work is extremely on the it's very, veryacademic because that's who he is. But also because those are the only people Ican actually listen to his world because he goes into neuro such specificstuff.

We need the translation of those words, but we need also a translationof the concepts into a practical aspect. So we can actually help people, notjust do. There's stuff on the black board and explain like the concepts of it.It has to be translated into a physical format, tactical. Yeah. Someone has totake this and apply it.

And very, very few people can, but I happen to be one ofthem. And so I want strong fit to be that, to be a practical application of whywe understand the system to be now, we are better than we were a hundred yearsago. And yet very, very little progress has been made outside of new pills. Inthe sense of mental health there's been progress.

Like at least we don't lobotomize the schizophrenia peopleanymore. So don't get me wrong in the last 16,

Boomer Anderson: [01:28:54]1940 or something. Oh,

Julien Pineau: [01:28:55]1960, or up to that. Uh, lobotomy. I remember, um, uh, waist got a fool overthe Cuckoo's Nick Cuckoo's nest with Jack Nicholson.  sixties. At least if not seventies

Richard Aceves: [01:29:11]doing it in some Eastern

Julien Pineau: [01:29:12]European countries, you still stay in the U S like, yeah.

Yeah. So. Yeah, there is no, there is progress. I'm alwaysbitching because I want to see things happen faster because I don't like to seepeople suffer, but the fact is there is progress, but there is a fundamentalchange that needs to happen for mental health to progress. Uh, they are peopleworking too well that Kalfuss, and I believe being the top of this beyond that,but there's a translation of that that is not being done.

And if we let Western society just do its thing, it'll take50 years for us. We can get there faster. And I think, um, happened to be oneof the few who can get it to a practical application a lot faster. And theproblem also is that side, the medical side is they will not use movement as atherapy. They don't know movement themselves.

They were a bunch of fucking nerds. I'm a nerd. So that'swhy I can say it. I'm a biggest nail you've met, but I'm also on the other sideof the movement side. And you see that when you look at a lot of studies, theydo not understand movement. They do not use movement. Most of the studies aredone on a bicycle.

They don't understand the importance of strength, trainingof different modalities of training that side of, of this world do notunderstand that. And so you need someone that does both. To be able to do that.And it's very few than do it. Even there happens to be one of them in that. SoI think between those combination, we can provide a translation of the workthat is being done right now in an actual form to actually help people.

And so the high-performers is, well, I want to go next. Meekwas within strong fit, but even me on my own, because I want to take people offof pills. Yeah. That's what I want.

Boomer Anderson: [01:30:55]You. And I have had conversations on the education system in the past, and Ifeel like I could go there, but that's an entire,

Julien Pineau: [01:31:02]no, they don't, but just as well.

But I agree. I would agree with that as well. Education, theformat has to change. Yeah.

Boomer Anderson: [01:31:07]The siloed approach just doesn't work,

Julien Pineau: [01:31:10]but the deterministic aspect of the medical science has to change. They need,they need to have the quantum mechanical epiphany if you want. But. That'lltake obviously even longer, but in the meantime, we can take people off ofpills off of anxiety, because it is a function we can help with anxiety.

You don't take people off of anxieties and so functional. Youcan help with it. We can help with depression. We can help them. Rely onthemselves instead of outsiders. Yeah. Instead of others, really the work wewant to do.

Richard Aceves: [01:31:40]And I think it's not even we can it's we are we all doing it,

Julien Pineau: [01:31:44]but again, that relay the key is to you relying on yourself to do this, notthat passive system, that that is obviously very scalable and highly marketablein highly financially.

Interesting of providing that service to a maximum amount ofpeople through scalability. Guess what? It doesn't work. That's why we singwith spills. Capitalism is great. It should not be. Relating to specificthings. And that's one of them, mental health is not about money, even thoughyou need money. We all agree on that, but it's not about money.

What we need is to give the tools for people to understandthemselves truly and get themselves in a better place mentally. And that's whatwe want.

Boomer Anderson: [01:32:27]Yeah. Empowered response responsibility, right?

Julien Pineau: [01:32:30]Responsibilities, such responsibilities, intent. It is such an important thingthat. More and more for whatever reason in the last few years, like we're goingon the mommy side of things, where every sing is a buddy evadingresponsibility.

It's about saying like, there was a crazy post of a womansaying like, like you need to find what you're good at neuro being driven tofinding your passion and everything. And she had an entire post explainingwhere she has no passion in life and that's who she is. And that's fine. I'mlike, that's fucking insane.

Like she wasn't sure. Yeah. And they've got to have thepassion and then that's fine. That's who I am. And basically she was saying,stop saying that because you're making me feel bad about myself. I'm like,that's the point? That's the entire point is that to fucking kick you in theass. So you gotta find something who wants to live without passion.

Are you on pills already? Is that what this is? And I betyou that's what this is. Yeah. But. Like, this is what kills me about too, isthe world is drifting too well, that responsibility almost like it's a Westerncapital is value. And I'm like, are you guys insane? Like, to me, this isinsanity. So if we go that route.

Of responsibility, then it's more appeals. It's more passivefixes that won't fix you because at the end you need to do the work. And if youlook what Richard does, it allows you to do the work. It's not doing it foryou. It's just allows you to do the work. This is the only way forward. Andevery Singh going back to CalFresh and that he talks about is the foundation oflife.

That's welcome to shorting girl. And then we're going a listis that is the, it's an amazing inference model. He requires hypothesis versus observation,observation from whom from you, you and the system. No one else is we can helpyou there, but at the end it's hypothesis versus observation that you do,that's what life is.

And. So that's what we want.

Boomer Anderson: [01:34:27]Amazing. All right. Uh, final four questions and love both of you to answerkind of meant as sort of a rapid fire, but we can have fun with this. What,what excites you guys most about the health world right now?

Julien Pineau: [01:34:42]Proving them wrong.

Boomer Anderson: [01:34:43]I get so excited.

Julien Pineau: [01:34:47]I get so excited about that.

That's why I love glycol that so lactate as, um, as the onlyproduct of glycolysis, or I can't wait to do a masterclass on that because it'sgoing to piss off 90% of people. Google it right now. It says pyruvate, notlike that. And so like you stuff like that, proving or proving them wrong. Itmakes me so happy.

Boomer Anderson: [01:35:07]Okay. So you agree with

Richard Aceves: [01:35:08]that? It's the same. Yeah. It's always fun. Alright. Right, right in front ofyou, like.

Julien Pineau: [01:35:14]Oh, I love that one.

Richard Aceves: [01:35:15]And then you just kind of go, so you don't eat the Peck overhead, go grab PVCby me. Just go really quick. And they're like, mm.

Julien Pineau: [01:35:20]So the school, um, Becky's internal rotator of the, of the humorous.

I'm not going. I grabbed the tech stick and then they go upa stick. Did you engage your pig? Yes. What did the humerus do? Externallyrotated. I'm like, like dropped and then they look at me going like. Wait, I'llbe right back. I'll come back to you on that. Go ahead, please. Come back, comeback.  more

Boomer Anderson: [01:35:41]joy. When a doctor has that reaction,

Julien Pineau: [01:35:43]because so much you don't understand.

I get you're like Mike Tyson gets

I'm hardcore science, hardcore science. That's the kind ofscience I'm looking at, you know, seeing that look in their eyes. I'm like,yeah. Oh yeah. That's where I get arousal. The most obvious dad, especiallywith doctors, dr. Hills. I don't know if, to prove them wrong.

Richard Aceves: [01:36:06]The only way to make revolution. Right. Disrupted

Boomer Anderson: [01:36:09]a top trick for enhancing focus. If you have one

Richard Aceves: [01:36:13]for enhancing focus. Yeah. At a computer desk at a training session. That's avery cool, um,

Julien Pineau: [01:36:20]let's see.

Richard Aceves: [01:36:20]I mean, that's was doing what,

Boomer Anderson: [01:36:22]um, I mean we have time. We have a little bit of time, both. If you both,

Richard Aceves: [01:36:29]if you're at a desk to enhance focus, I would say being able to understand howto nasal breathe all the way down into the diaphragm, not chest breathing.

And moving, moving your caps more than anything.

Julien Pineau: [01:36:42]So focus is cardiac. Coherence has been tested, right? You can do that for afew seconds up to a minute. So the breathing that works, if you're going to belong distance, there's only one way to do it. It's a voluntary control ofemotion to wild what they call positive emotions, but more like an active one.

So you won't increase our focus, get something, our fishrates, you change your mind about it being fished, ready to add something morepositive minded and you'll be focused for an hour. Wow. Okay. And that's, I canshow you measurements and all the shit on that. It's the eighth Yarki it's theexecutive control network.

If you can access the focus is in the executive controlnetwork. This is a global workspace that we have where all the, the hubs, thenetworks that use the most energy of the brain get together to create a globalworkspace that comes out of a synchronization that happens only if you havethat voluntary control of emotion in place.

So it's a skill that can be developed, but I require us togo to well, something, for example, that we create frustration and shifting itto weld. What they call a positive mindset. I don't like positive versusnegative. I'm not sure how they'll use using active mindset. So it's going froma passive mindset to an active mindset.

If you can fuck with that and learn that skill, you can justget the focus right away. We can use exercise to do that. We can use breathingto do that, but at the end, that's a skill that will get you to focus. Hm.

Boomer Anderson: [01:38:00]A book which has most significantly impacted your life.

Julien Pineau: [01:38:03]Oh, fuck me.

Boomer Anderson: [01:38:04]And for you, this is going to be in a laundry list.

Julien Pineau: [01:38:07]Yeah. Uh, those bugs ought to star. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's I was 18.

Richard Aceves: [01:38:13]My mom was down on the Hill.

Julien Pineau: [01:38:14]Yeah. Yeah. Not yet. Uh, 18. That's the one, like the earliest, the one that,yeah. That one, then there's been many others incentives, centers, a laundrylist, but, uh, there's been a few moments in my life is, is probably like threeor four.

That was the first one. A big one was what is life byshorting girl? I was a major, major thing. And in Galveston that actuallyRichard sent me was another one of those moments.

Richard Aceves: [01:38:37]Ryan holiday. Ego's the enemy. I think it just came at the exact right timewhen I needed that book. So that one, I think, switched over then.

Cause that was one. I just, I

Julien Pineau: [01:38:45]told him

Boomer Anderson: [01:38:46]it was a second book, right? It wasn't well, actually he did all theadvertising thing,

Richard Aceves: [01:38:51]the first one. Yep. And then he goes the enemy. But I remember I was readingthat one and it was right at the time where I went to June, I was like, weshould go do seminars around the world type thing.

So just like, it just came at the right time for me to wantto

Julien Pineau: [01:39:03]go actually. Uh,

Boomer Anderson: [01:39:06]where can people find out more about you guys?

Richard Aceves: [01:39:09]We have a Facebook community group. We have strong fit, one rare Barracuda,strong foot equipment, strong strong fit library, and for YouTubestrong fit. Yeah. Oh, Julian's corner.

Yeah. It's gone down. We're going to have a there's one I'mmissing there.

Julien Pineau: [01:39:28]Just chill school. No, one's

Richard Aceves: [01:39:29]coming to church. Yeah. We're we're all we're trying to

Julien Pineau: [01:39:32]just be everywhere. Email us,

Richard Aceves: [01:39:34]email us.

Boomer Anderson: [01:39:36]I'll link to all of this stuff.

Julien Pineau: [01:39:37]Just email us again, like fine. Yeah, exactly. And also what you're looking forthough, like our only on sale, the people that I find interesting in theirquest in life is with this way.

Boomer Anderson: [01:39:51]Gentlemen, this has been. Absolute pleasure.

Richard Aceves: [01:39:54]Thank you very much.

Boomer Anderson: [01:39:55]Yeah, we're going to do it again soon, but

Julien Pineau: [01:39:57]thank you. Perfect. Thank you very much.


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